RTC/tunelab thing
Jeffrey Cutler
jwcpianotech at gmail.com
Sun Dec 2 10:09:39 MST 2007
> I may be new to the piano tech trade, but I've been working with
> multiple computer systems
for years. When I bought a Mac to use at home do you suppose that
Microsoft would give me a cross
grade price when I purchased Office for Mac? Or that Adobe would give
me a special price when I
bought Photoshop again? I think not, nor would I expect them to. So I
was very pleasantly surprised
when, in the last week, Dean Reyburn replied to my question posted on
his cybertuner list that if I
wanted to cross grade from my Pocket PC version of Cyber Tuner to a
Macbook version ($895)that it
would cost $100. plus S/H since I had bought the pocket version within
the last year. This is more than
fair as I could easily sell the Pocket PC WITH an intact version of
RCT and chortle to the bank. I have enough
scruples to not do this, but Dean doesn't know that. Whatever version
you like is the version you should
use. I personally chose RCT due in large part to it's ease of use and
it's recommendation by my mentor.
If he had been using Tunelab maybe that is what I would be using now
but my customers are happy and
that is what is important at the end of the day.
>
>
> From: "Cy Shuster" <cy at shusterpiano.com>
> Date: December 2, 2007 12:26:14 AM CST
> To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Subject: Re: RTC/tune lab thing
> Reply-To: Cy Shuster <cy at shusterpiano.com>, Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org
> >
>
>
> Sure... there's no way for Dean (or Robert) to know that you've
> stopped using either the laptop or the PDA. You might have sold the
> old system with the software still on it.
>
> Robert does give a $100 discount if you already own another (paid)
> version.
>
> It's also quite normal to discontinue support on old operating
> systems. It's double the work to build and test on two different
> OS's, just like on two different hardware platforms. And what if
> you want to take advantage of new OS features that aren't on the old
> one?
>
> --Cy--
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alan Barnard
> To: pianotech at ptg.org
> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 10:46 PM
> Subject: RE: RTC/tune lab thing
>
> Whoa, there. Don't lay that charge at Dean's feet, or at least not
> only Dean. Switching platforms like that would also cost money with
> Tunelab, though he gives a $100 discount, I think.
>
> Alan Barnard
> Salem, MO
>
> Original message
> From: "Dean May"
> To: "Pianotech List"
> Received: 12/1/2007 7:38:27 PM
> Subject: RE: RTC/tune lab thing
>
> >.have actually paid for the program twice now, once for the lap top
> version then when I switched to the PDA.
>
> Ditto.
>
> Dean
>
> Dean May cell 812.239.3359
> PianoRebuilders.com 812.235.5272
> Terre Haute IN 47802
> From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org]
> On Behalf Of Steve Blasyak
> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 8:12 PM
> To: pianotech at ptg.org
> Subject: RTC/tune lab thing
>
> Hey Now,
>
> Yes Dean, I think if you read my post that's exactly what I said. If
> you up grade to Windows Mobil 5.0 it cost you $$$$$. I just thought
> I'd point out that prior to changing the Operating System/ PDA
> upgrades were provided free, that's all. I understand your beef as
> well, and believe me I am ticked off too. Because I have been a
> loyal customer for ten years and love the program. I have actually
> paid for the program twice now, once for the lap top version then
> when I switched to the PDA. I buy a new PDA and find out I have to
> pay yet again. That is if I decide to continue using RCT. Tune Lab
> here I come.
>
> Steve Blasyak
> Orange County Ca.
>
> Pura Vida
> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Connect now!
>
>
>
>
> From: "Cy Shuster" <cy at shusterpiano.com>
> Date: December 2, 2007 2:52:11 AM CST
> To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Subject: Re: Accepting credit cards
> Reply-To: Cy Shuster <cy at shusterpiano.com>, Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org
> >
>
>
> You can create a PayPal account for free, and accept the occasional
> credit card for a fee of something like $3-$5 per $100. Your
> customer needs only an email address and web access, and does not
> have to join PayPal (last time I checked).
>
> Strangely, many government customers prefer to use plastic (prisons,
> community colleges).
>
> --Cy--
>
>
>
>
> From: Jon Page <jonpage at comcast.net>
> Date: December 2, 2007 6:32:51 AM CST
> To: pianotech at ptg.org
> Subject: Need Bechstein cheekblocks...
> Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>
>
> Can you track down the missing blocks? Or locate a similar
> piano and duplicate the blocks? It will be very difficult to
> design them from scratch considering the type and location
> of the frame registering pins, indexing dowels for the keybed
> and maybe fallboard hinges/notches.
> Then you'll have to apply a finish.
>
> Contact the manufacturer, and retrofit a new pair.
> --
>
> Regards,
>
> Jon Page
>
>
>
>
> From: "Dean May" <deanmay at pianorebuilders.com>
> Date: December 2, 2007 7:32:10 AM CST
> To: "'Pianotech List'" <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Subject: RE: Need Bechstein cheekblocks...
> Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>
>
> You might try fabricating some out of Styrofoam. Just glue several
> pieces
> together to get the right thickness and carve out the shape you
> need. Then
> take them to a woodworker for duplication.
>
> Dean
>
> Dean May cell 812.239.3359
>
> PianoRebuilders.com 812.235.5272
>
> Terre Haute IN 47802
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org]
> On Behalf
> Of Jon Page
> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 7:33 AM
> To: pianotech at ptg.org
> Subject: Need Bechstein cheekblocks...
>
> Can you track down the missing blocks? Or locate a similar
> piano and duplicate the blocks? It will be very difficult to
> design them from scratch considering the type and location
> of the frame registering pins, indexing dowels for the keybed
> and maybe fallboard hinges/notches.
> Then you'll have to apply a finish.
>
> Contact the manufacturer, and retrofit a new pair.
> --
>
> Regards,
>
> Jon Page
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "David Boyce" <David at piano.plus.com>
> Date: December 2, 2007 7:05:50 AM CST
> To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Subject: Re: Whadayathink of this piano sound?
> Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>
>
> Gary,
>
> Sorry, I didn't express myself properly.
>
> In fact I am "pro" digital recording. I totally agree with all your
> comments regarding wow & flutter, and the challenge of recording
> piano sound.
>
> I have an interesting HiFi CD audio recorder. It's a Philips CDR785,
> which I don't think they made many of. Ths unique thing about it is
> that it has a quarter-inch tereo jack socket on the front to take a
> stereo mic (or two mics via an adaptor) and you can record from an
> acoustical audio source straight onto CD. On subsequent models they
> removed that feature. I've used it to record a piano and song
> recital and it worked very well. It's not, of course, really
> intended for portable use.
>
> What I was getting at, really, was the *universality of access* of
> cassette tape in former times. I had in mind a musical couple
> locally, she a singer and he an accompanist and organist. They had a
> JVC "ghetto blaster" type machine for years, which made decent
> stereo recordings from its built-in mics. They could record an
> accompaniment for a choir member and hand over the casette, very
> easily played on any other machine. And they always recorded their
> own recitals. For myself, for years I carried around a Philips
> D6920 Audio-Visual stereo cassette recorder and two mics, and made
> some nice recordings at various events. The next model up was the
> Sony Professional Walkman, too expensive for me.
>
> Well, three or four years ago, my friends' JVC packed in, and the
> belts on my Philips started to get slack. At that time - and I
> know things are changing now - it was difficult to find any ready
> replacement to do the things my friends wanted to do - easily make
> recordings they could hand over, etc. Nor would personnel in audio
> stores be of much help, for it's rather a "niche market", making
> stereo audio recordings from live sources on the move.
>
> I accept that in the intervening time, things have moved on. MP3
> players are now ubiquitous, and many offer a facility to record.
> In most cases, however, the use of a PC will be involved at some
> point, if you want to, for example, make a copy of an accomplaniment
> to hand over to a choir member.
>
> Nor do manufacturers seem to want to make it easy to record in
> stereo from accoustical sources - it's not what the industry is
> about - they want you to buy packaged commercially produced music,
> not make and record your own!
>
> So, I think what I meant was, things are not QUITE "there yet", in
> terms of going into a store and saying "I want to make a recording
> of the church choir this week and give copies to some members to let
> them listen. Sell me a device to do that, my old cassette machine is
> bust". I think a lots of store personnel would struggle.
>
> I am certainly not one of those, by the way, who say that vinyl is
> better than CD!
>
> Best,
>
> David.
>
>
>
> David,
>
> '"...but things are not quite "there" yet..." Are you serious?
> Digital
> recording is fantastic. Easy to use portable digital recorders are
> readily
> available. No previous method of recording can compare with digital
> regarding. Digital recording devastates all the previous methods
> regarding
> fidelity, including wow and flutter, harmonic distortion, noise and
> dynamic
> range, not to mention the economy of storage mediums, random access
> capability, ability to edit and modify sound, etc. Of course, the
> piano has
> historically been one of the best instruments to record as a test of a
> recording medium as it has a huge dynamic range and especially the
> fact that
> wow and flutter is very noticeable when recording piano. A piano's
> sound is
> dead solid when it comes to sustaining a uniform pitch as notes
> decay, so
> any wow or flutter is noticed. This is unlike woodwinds and bowed
> instruments. There is virtually no wow and flutter with the digital
> medium.
>
> Interestingly enough, George Martin has said that those who don't
> like what
> they sound like when recorded digitally and want to use analog tape
> instead,
> need to address what it is about their sound that needs to be
> "fixed" by the
> distortion of analog tape.
>
>
> Gary Fluke
> Snohomish, WA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "David Boyce" <David at piano.plus.com>
> Date: December 2, 2007 7:18:49 AM CST
> To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Subject: Re: Whadayathink of this piano sound?
> Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>
>
> I have covered myself in opprobrium and I now grovel shamefully in it.
>
> Ron, the work you and Kent have done on that piano - and others - is
> fascinating, and surely worthy of the utmost plaudit. I've followed
> discussions on here about the treble fish etc with great interest,
> as one who has no experience of rebuild or redesign. These issues
> are intriguing, and in this age it seems to fall to dedicated
> individuals like you to explore taking piano design forward.
>
> I was remarking to Kent how in my area there are lots of late 19th
> century quality uprights, and how at that time you could see makers
> experimenting with design features. In today's commercial world
> there seems to be much less inclination on the part of piano makers
> to do do.
>
> With regard to the sound files: I would never have identified the
> piano as being - or as having been! - a Steinway B, from the overall
> sound. The tenor and treble to me on my HiFi sounded very
> different, most lively and interesting. I did think that I detected
> a certain Steinway quality in the bass, but I fully concede that I
> may have been reading that back in, having read that it started as a
> Steinway B. And curiously, on my tiny and ineffective laptop
> speakers, the sound does seem to take on a certain plangent
> Bosendorfer-ish quality. Not a fair method of assessment however.
>
> The bottom line is that I'd love to hear it live, to fully apreciate
> it!
>
> I always enjoy the fascinating technical stuff in your posts Ron,
> and your humour.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David.
>
>
>> I also find
>> that it doesn't have the Bosendorfer-ish quality I thought I
>> deteceted
>> on the tiny laptop speakers, and I can hear the Steinway pedigree,
>> but
>> the piano sounding very fresh and lovely and lively.
>
> No, you don't. There's very little in that piano that's still
> Steinway.
>
>
>> The old Steinway B's seem to restore so well.
>
> This one isn't remotely restored - it's heavily redesigned. It
> has a new string scale, new bridges, bass separated from the
> tenor, with a nine note transition bridge in the low tenor,
> new soundboard, with more ribs than the original, fanned and
> deeply crowned for support with very low panel compression,
> extra rim and belly rail bracing, a big bass cutoff, and a
> treble fish. The plate is also modified with vertical hitch
> pins, and elimination of both the front and rear tuned
> duplexes. That's not Steinway you hear in there, it's my way
> and Kent's way. This dog has a different pedigree.
>
> Ron N
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Byeway222 at aol.com
> Date: December 2, 2007 8:02:04 AM CST
> To: pianotech at ptg.org
> Subject: Re: Whadayathink of this piano sound?
> Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>
>
> Hi there,
> I haven't been following this thread at all I'm afraid, so I may be
> repeating whay others have said.
> The recording gadget which is all the rage at present appears to be
> the Roland Edirol R-90. It records piano superbly in uncompressed
> CD quality sound. It has reverb facility and downloads onto PC.
> http://www.EDIROL.net
>
> ric
>
>
>
> From: "Scott Jackson" <ScottWayneJackson at hotmail.com>
> Date: December 2, 2007 8:13:56 AM CST
> To: "'Pianotech List'" <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Subject: RE: David Andersen's whole-note tuning
> Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>
>
> Thanks David, that's what I wanted to know. And thanks to Bob Hull
> and John
> Formsma for further illumination of the topic.
>
> Scott Jackson
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "Annie Grieshop" <annie at allthingspiano.com>
> Date: December 2, 2007 8:40:48 AM CST
> To: "Cy Shuster" <cy at shusterpiano.com>, "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org
> >
> Subject: RE: Accepting credit cards
> Reply-To: annie at allthingspiano.com, Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>
>
> If you accept credit cards on your PayPal account, you will pay a %
> fee on ALL payments received through that account, cash as well as
> credit. My work-around is to have two PayPal accounts -- one for
> credit cards and one for cash. A bit cumbersome, but it works (and
> saves me $.04 on every virtual cash dollar!).
>
> Annie
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cy Shuster [mailto:cy at shusterpiano.com]
> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 2:52 AM
> To: Pianotech List
> Subject: Re: Accepting credit cards
>
> You can create a PayPal account for free, and accept the occasional
> credit card for a fee of something like $3-$5 per $100. Your
> customer needs only an email address and web access, and does not
> have to join PayPal (last time I checked).
>
> Strangely, many government customers prefer to use plastic (prisons,
> community colleges).
>
> --Cy--
>
>
>
>
> From: Ron Nossaman <rnossaman at cox.net>
> Date: December 2, 2007 9:20:46 AM CST
> To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Subject: Re: Whadayathink of this piano sound?
> Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>
>
>
>> I have covered myself in opprobrium and I now grovel shamefully in
>> it.
>
> No no, don't do that! I was letting you know that if you heard
> Steinway in there, it was either the lingering ghost of the previous
> incarnation leeching out of the tone collector, or as you said,
> judging the sound from the name. Sort of like recognizing old Bessy
> from the taste of the hamburger. Hey, I even removed the mystic
> bell, and put in a brace and nose bolt instead. Not many of the
> original patent features left in that piano.
>
>
>> I was remarking to Kent how in my area there are lots of late 19th
>> century quality uprights, and how at that time you could see makers
>> experimenting with design features. In today's commercial world
>> there seems to be much less inclination on the part of piano makers
>> to do do.
>
> Yes, and it's a shame. Manufacturers now have a design kit of off
> the shelf "features" to stick into the initial CAD drawing of any
> new design with what seems to be little apparent understanding of
> it's contribution to the ultimate function of the instrument. No one
> needs to understand, or try to find out, how anything works to do
> that, so few bother. Even most of those that do care stick very
> close to the center of their established path so the pianos produced
> still too often have similar tonal problems to those they produced a
> hundred years ago when they quit prospecting and started mining.
> Some few, thankfully, are still doing some prospecting now and then.
>
>
>> The bottom line is that I'd love to hear it live, to fully
>> apreciate it!
>
> In person, it's very - lush.
>
>
>> I always enjoy the fascinating technical stuff in your posts Ron,
>> and your humour.
>
> Thanks, but it *is* just me, after all.
> Ron N
>
>
>
>
> From: Erwinspiano at aol.com
> Date: December 2, 2007 9:47:59 AM CST
> To: pianotech at ptg.org
> Subject: Steinway & Sons Watches
> Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>
>
> A friend wrote me this reply. It was a bit humorous:
> Hey Dale
>
> Thanks for the catalogues. Christmas shopping is now solved! By the
> way, does it say how much prep work has to be done before these
> things work properly? This will be good for the economy. Just think
> how much work it will mean to watch repair shops! I just wonder if
> their customers will also insist upon using over-priced under-
> performing "Genuine" Steinway parts to fix their watches and speakers.
> Anonymous
>
>
>
> Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top
> money wasters of 2007.
>
>
>
> From: Ron Nossaman <rnossaman at cox.net>
> Date: December 2, 2007 10:07:06 AM CST
> To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Subject: Re: Steinway & Sons Watches
> Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>
>
>
>> Thanks for the catalogues. Christmas shopping is now solved! By
>> the
>> way, does it say how much prep work has to be done before these
>> things work properly? This will be good for the economy. Just
>> think
>> how much work it will mean to watch repair shops! I just wonder if
>> their customers will also insist upon using over-priced
>> under-performing "Genuine" Steinway parts to fix their watches and
>> speakers.
>> Anonymous
>
>
> The watches are certainly too ugly to own, but I am curious what the
> Steinway tick sounds like.
> Ron N
>
>
>
>
> From: "Porritt, David" <dporritt at mail.smu.edu>
> Date: December 2, 2007 10:39:40 AM CST
> To: <l-bartlett at sbcglobal.net>, "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Subject: RE: left-handed tuning
> Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>
>
> Les:
>
> I can't 'splain it, I just do it. I've tried left handed and though
> there are several jobs I do naturally left handed, tuning isn't one of
> them. I really, Really wish I had become ambidextrous as I was
> learning
> but now at my age the attempt is too slow and the result too painful
> to
> pursue that goal. My hammer technique has changed somewhat over the
> years, now mostly driven by the damage to my tuning hand. The biggest
> improvement has come with the purchase of a Fujan tuning lever. I use
> the long handle because it makes tight pins easier to turn and because
> there is NO flex in the lever as there is in "normal" tuning levers
> that
> are extended. Since it is so stiff you feel every movement and makes
> your tuning that much better. So I'm still learning new techniques,
> it's just that left handed tuning isn't one of them!
>
> dave
>
> ____________________
> David M. Porritt, RPT
> dporritt at smu.edu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On
> Behalf Of Leslie Bartlett
> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 10:23 PM
> To: 'Pianotech List'
> Subject: RE: left-handed tuning
>
> Uhm, I sure don't see Dave Porritt chiming in anywhere. Hey DAVE- you
> gonna
> chime in?????????????????????????????????????? I spent a day with
> him
> when I first couldn't figure out TL 97, and he tunes right handed,
> 3:00,
> straight arm. Dumbest thing in the whole world I thought. Then he
> would
> set his fingers on top of the plate (verticals) and ever so gently
> lift
> the
> hammer just a tiny bit with his thumb, and the darned things slipped
> in
> like
> they had been glued. I wish he'd "splain it, cause it worked like a
> charm,
> and he says there's good data to support that style of tuning. It
> sure
> worked beautifully for him. After that, I decided that "what works
> for
> someone works for someone", and I'll never criticize a hammer
> technique
> again. that was an amazing demonstration to me because it worked so
> well
> and so consistently.
> les bartlett
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Ron Nossaman
> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:25 PM
> To: Pianotech List
> Subject: Re: left-handed tuning
>
> Michelle Smith wrote:
>> Thanks to everyone for your informative responses! The reason I
>> started thinking about all of this was because of a piano I never
>> want
>
>> to see again. (Ha Ha!) It was a school upright that had been
>> sitting
>
>> in a small practice room forever. Something had happened with the
>> pinblock and the pins would barely move! When I tuned left handed, I
>> seemed to have to bring the string really far sharp to get the pin to
>> move even slightly. One of the strings broke and many others were
>> probably on their way. When I switched to my right hand, the pins
>> moved a little easier. My theory is that the point of pressure is
>> different when tuning left handed (upward) as opposed to right handed
>> (downward) and that particular piano just couldn't take it.
>
> What's happening is pin flex - flag poling, and twist. Pulling in the
> direction of the string (down, in a vertical), you can move the pin
> quite a
> ways in the block and barely hear the pitch change. Then you let the
> pressure off and it goes sharp.
> Pushing up left handed opposite the direction of the string, the
> opposite
> happens. There's a hammer position for verticals that, when you're
> pulling
> in the right direction, the downward pin flex very nearly equals the
> twist
> you're putting in the pin, and when you let go, they cancel and the
> pitch
> doesn't change. It's not a magic bullet, it's just another of a
> hundred
> things you notice in tuning, and adapt for as you go.
> Ron N
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.10/1160 - Release Date:
> 11/29/2007
> 8:32 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pianotech list info http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech
Jeffrey Cutler
Piano & Fretted Instrument Service
651-398-6293
jwcpianotech at gmail.com
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