lead in piano
Avery
avery1 at houston.rr.com
Sun Mar 4 15:41:54 MST 2007
?????????????????
Nothing there.
At 06:59 AM 3/4/2007, you wrote:
>ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
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>From: pianotech-request at ptg.org
>Reply-To: pianotech at ptg.org
>To: pianotech at ptg.org
>Subject: Pianotech Digest, Vol 1285, Issue 17
>Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 19:47:47 -0700
> >Send Pianotech mailing list submissions to
> > pianotech at ptg.org
> >
> >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech
> >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > pianotech-request at ptg.org
> >
> >You can reach the person managing the list at
> > pianotech-owner at ptg.org
> >
> >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >than "Re: Contents of Pianotech digest..."
>
> >Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: Seasonal pitch change: was -- Long term pitch drop, was:
> > Type O (Sid Blum)
> > 2. Re: What would Steinway do (hubert liverman)
> > 3. RE : Seasonal pitch change: was -- Long term pitch drop, was:
> > Type O (Marcel Carey)
> > 4. RE : Seasonal pitch change: was -- Long term pitch drop, was:
> > Type O (Sid Blum)
> > 5. Re: What would Steinway do (David Andersen)
> > 6. RE : RE : Seasonal pitch change: was -- Long term pitch drop,
> > was: Type O (Marcel Carey)
> > 7. Re: Baldwin Concert Grand (Mike Kurta)
> > 8. Weinbach Studio (Mark's Piano Service)
> > 9. Re: Seasonal pitch change: was -- Long term pitch drop, was:
> > Type O (Ron Nossaman)
> > 10. Re: Seasonal pitch change: was -- Long term pitch drop, was:
> > Type O (PAULREVENKOJONES)
> > 11. Seasonal pitch change: was -- Long term pitch drop, was: Type
> > O (RicB)
>
>
>From: Sid Blum <piano at sover.net>
>Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>Subject: Re: Seasonal pitch change: was -- Long term pitch drop, was: Type O
>Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 16:26:56 -0500
> >>
> >>........"The next major factor behind the bridge cap/pin changes
> >>is, I think, dimensional changes in the pinblock."..........
> >>Ron N
> >
> >Okay I'll bite-
> >
> >Tuning pins moving up and down or forward and backward?
> >
> >Sid
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>From: "hubert liverman" <hubertliverman at bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
>Subject: Re: What would Steinway do
>Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 15:56:03 -0600
>
>
>In fact, you and Dale should analyze the
>house,last shipment,and learn from the Old Piano Elves.
>Training the second generation of Pixies could
>be problematic. This opens us to a whole new
>field of Technology that may somewhat agree with some customer conceptions.
>
>With respect and humor to everyone,
>
>Hubert Liverman
>Tuner/ tech
>
> In fact, Dale and I split the last shipment of
> fairy dust we got from the Old Piano Elves that
> live down in that strange house near that old factory.....ooooooohhhhhh.....
>DA
>
>On Mar 2, 2007, at 8:54 PM,
><mailto:Erwinspiano at aol.com>Erwinspiano at aol.com wrote:
>
> NAh Nah Nah. It's the magic wood that makes it authentic
> Dale
>I love it! That is something I can't get my brain around. "Will it
> > still be a Steinway?" I guess I'm not too bright but I don't get the
> > concept.
> >
> > David M. Porritt
>
>
>
>
>
>From: Marcel Carey <mcpiano at videotron.ca>
>Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>To: "'Pianotech List'" <pianotech at ptg.org>
>Subject: RE : Seasonal pitch change: was -- Long term pitch drop, was: Type O
>Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 17:07:49 -0500
> >It all depends if you're talking about an upright or a grand... :-)
> >
> >Marcel Carey
> >
> > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > De : pianotech-bounces at ptg.org
> > > [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] De la part de Sid Blum
> > > Envoyé : 3 mars 2007 16:27
> > >
> > > Okay I'll bite-
> > >
> > > Tuning pins moving up and down or forward and backward?
> > >
> > > Sid
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sid Blum
> > > sid at sover.net
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>From: Sid Blum <piano at sover.net>
>Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>Subject: RE : Seasonal pitch change: was -- Long term pitch drop, was: Type O
>Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 17:13:08 -0500
> >
> >Thought of that as soon as a sent it off. I was picturing a grand.
> >Thanks for keeping me on my feet.
> >
> >Sid
> >
> >>It all depends if you're talking about an upright or a grand... :-)
> >>
> >>Marcel Carey
> >>
> >>> -----Message d'origine-----
> >>> De : pianotech-bounces at ptg.org
> >>> [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] De la part de Sid Blum
> >>> Envoyé : 3 mars 2007 16:27
> >>>
> >>> Okay I'll bite-
> >>>
> >>> Tuning pins moving up and down or forward and backward?
> >>>
> >>> Sid
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Sid Blum
> >>> sid at sover.net
> >>>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>From: David Andersen <david at davidandersenpianos.com>
>Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>Subject: Re: What would Steinway do
>Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 14:24:01 -0800
>
>
>On Mar 3, 2007, at 1:56 PM, hubert liverman wrote:
>
>In fact, you and Dale should analyze the
>house,last shipment,and learn from the Old Piano Elves.
>
>We have the house completely controlled by our
>agents; we've scoured every surface for clues as
>to the make-up of the Fairy Dust; and we've got
>the Elves in a sub-basement of the Atelier, and
>on a "persuasion" program that we've put
>together...I'll keep you all posted when they.....start to cooperate.
>
>Training the second generation of Pixies could be problematic.
>
>Dude. Please. These are not Pixies. Pixies are
>buffoons; they hate pianos; they love clarinets
>and banjos...the hell with Pixies. these are Elves---pee--ANNO Elves, sir.
>
>This opens us to a whole new field of Technology
>that may somewhat agree with some customer conceptions.
>
>Absolutely. My personal goal is to replace
>myself as a field technician with one of the
>Elves by the end of 2008; people seem to like
>them a bit better than bitter, cynical old
>geezer pianotechs, for some reason. That
>frickin' Elf gets a big tip every time I send him in my place......
>
>With respect and humor to everyone,
>
>Hubert Liverman
>Tuner/ tech
>
>Right back at ya, Hubert.....
>
>David Andersen
>Elf Slavemaster
>
> In fact, Dale and I split the last shipment of
> fairy dust we got from the Old Piano Elves that
> live down in that strange house near that old factory.....ooooooohhhhhh.....
>DA
>
>On Mar 2, 2007, at 8:54 PM,
><mailto:Erwinspiano at aol.com>Erwinspiano at aol.com wrote:
>
> NAh Nah Nah. It's the magic wood that makes it authentic
> Dale
>I love it! That is something I can't get my brain around. "Will it
> > still be a Steinway?" I guess I'm not too bright but I don't get the
> > concept.
> >
> > David M. Porritt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: Marcel Carey <mcpiano at videotron.ca>
>Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>To: "'Pianotech List'" <pianotech at ptg.org>
>Subject: RE : RE : Seasonal pitch change: was --
>Long term pitch drop,was: Type O
>Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 17:43:18 -0500
> >Sorry Sid, the door was just too wide open for it.
> >
> > >From my experience, the block would move forward and backward. Maybe
> >others would think differently.
> >
> >Marcel
> >
> > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > De : pianotech-bounces at ptg.org
> > > [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] De la part de Sid Blum
> > > Envoyé : 3 mars 2007 17:13
> > > À : Pianotech List
> > > Objet : RE : Seasonal pitch change: was -- Long term pitch
> > > drop, was: Type O
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thought of that as soon as a sent it off. I was
> > > picturing a grand. Thanks for keeping me on my
> > > feet.
> > >
> > > Sid
> > >
> > > >It all depends if you're talking about an upright or a grand... :-)
> > > >
> > > >Marcel Carey
> > > >
> > > >> -----Message d'origine-----
> > > >> De : pianotech-bounces at ptg.org
> > > [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org]
> > > >> De la part de Sid Blum
> > > Envoyé : 3 mars 2007 16:27
> > > >>
> > > >> Okay I'll bite-
> > > >>
> > > >> Tuning pins moving up and down or forward and backward?
> > > >>
> > > >> Sid
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Sid Blum
> > > >> sid at sover.net
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sid Blum
> > > sid at sover.net
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>From: "Mike Kurta" <mkurta at adelphia.net>
>Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
>Subject: Re: Baldwin Concert Grand
>Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 17:37:13 -0500
>
> Gerald:
> From your description of the hammer wear,
> it doesn't seem as though they would need
> replacing at this point. Reshaping, yes. The
> strings breaking at the agraffe would suggest
> "work hardening." This condition may be
> created by hard playing (and a lot of it) which
> makes the strings move up and down, back and
> forth which causes the wire to get brittle and
> break at the termination point closest to the
> hammer--the agraffe. Using too much sustain
> pedal will also make the problem worse again,
> excess string movement. I suggest replacing
> strings as needed and study the habits of the primary player.
> Mike Kurta
> Syracuse chapter
>
>
>From: "Mark's Piano Service" <mps at usol.com>
>Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>To: "Pianotech" <pianotech at ptg.org>
>Subject: Weinbach Studio
>Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:37:56 -0500
>
>I tuned a Weinbach Studio the other day and
>noticed how the pins seemed to be somewhat loose
>to me. I had just done a recently rebuilt
>Steinway "L" and I'm not sure if the Steinway
>had such tight pins that it made the Weinbach
>feel loose, or if the Weinbach is known for
>loose pins. The Weinbach is seven years old. and
>has a DC system installed. I'm not sure of the
>exact RH that day. So I'm not sure if that was a significant factor.
>
>
>Mark's Piano Service
>
>
>
>From: Ron Nossaman <rnossaman at cox.net>
>Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>Subject: Re: Seasonal pitch change: was -- Long term pitch drop, was: Type O
>Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 15:53:48 -0600
> >
> >>Okay I'll bite-
> >>
> >>Tuning pins moving up and down or forward and backward?
> >>
> >>Sid
> >
> >Forward and backward, directly in line with the string tension. A
> >couple of thousandths of an inch position change can make a
> >significant difference in pitch.
> >
> >Ron N
> >
>
>
>From: PAULREVENKOJONES <paulrevenkojones at aol.com>
>Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
>Subject: Re: Seasonal pitch change: was -- Long term pitch drop, was: Type O
>Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 20:35:49 -0600
>
>Ron:
>
>Certainly the dimensional changes you suggest
>would create a pitch difference, but what about
>the not so inconsequential friction systems of
>the front scale: bearing cloth, counterbearing
>bar, agraffe or capo, etc. Would the "couple of
>thousandths" translate into real pitch change in
>the speaking length? Would it account for the
>predominantly middle range changes we
>experience? Would it explain bearing measurement
>shifts after major pitch change? I'd love to hear Jim Ellis chime in on this.
>
>Paul
>
>"If you want to know the truth, stop having opinions" (Chinese fortune cookie)
>
>
>In a message dated 03/03/07 19:58:09 Central
>Standard Time, rnossaman at cox.net writes:
>
> > Okay I'll bite-
> >
> > Tuning pins moving up and down or forward and backward?
> >
> > Sid
>
>Forward and backward, directly in line with the string
>tension. A couple of thousandths of an inch position change
>can make a significant difference in pitch.
>
>Ron N
>
>
>
>
>From: RicB <ricb at pianostemmer.no>
>Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>To: pianotech at ptg.org
>Subject: Seasonal pitch change: was -- Long term pitch drop, was: Type O
>Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 03:37:03 +0100
> >Hi folks
> >
> >I have a feeling that whats not being taken into account for is
> >exactly what one can expect from a given vertical deflection change
> >of the string at the bridge. It matters not whether this vertical
> >deflection comes from the bridge swelling, or from a soundboard
> >rising, or from any combination of these.
> >
> >The point is that given usual design string deflection numbers,
> >usual string lengths and diameters, significant changes in frequency
> >due to changes in vertical displacement carry too high a price in
> >terms of change in downbearing to be realistic. At least thats what
> >it looks like to me.
> >
> >Anyone interested is calculating change in frequency, downbearing,
> >tensions etc for changes in vertical displacement can do so with
> >reasonable accuracy using the attached formulas. I worked out all
> >this as a result of a correspondance with Alex Galembo a year or so
> >back. I needed a way of taking into consideration the elongation of
> >the string due to changes in string deflection only before I could
> >come in ballpark figures for changes in the other relevant
> >parameters to work out this sheet the way I wanted to. I've had it
> >looked at by a few folks who've yet to punch any holes in the logic
> >or calculations, tho I would be glad to learn of any error made here
> >in either.
> >
> >In anycase... if what I have here is correct or even reasonably
> >so... then vertical string deflection as a significant cause of
> >pitch change seems to carry to large a price in terms of change in
> >downbearing force. As the example shows, a change from 1 mm
> >deflection to 2 mm causes downbearing for this single string unison
> >to rise to 8 pounds. Figure that out over the entire piano.... If
> >you on the other hand calculate withing reasonable downbearing force
> >parameters... you end up with quite small changes in pitch.
> >Certainly much smaller then can account for the large pitch changes
> >we see.
> >
> >Cheers
> >RicB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>[]
>
>
>
>
>
>Symbols
>
>a = Speaking Length
>b = Back Length
>d = Bridge Deflection
>p = tuning pin length
>T = Tension
>L = String Length
>
>Initial Conditions
>Zero deflection; d0 = 0
>Tension is T0
>L0 = a0 + b0 Wire Ø mm WCS mm^2 E McFerrin E
> 0,90 0,64 45000,00 31023,63
>Formulas:
> T0 lbs a0 mm b0 mm L0 mm p0
>E is taken as 45000 lbs / mm^2 150,00 150,00000 50,00 400,00 200,00 Hz0
>[]
>
>[]
>
>[]
>
>[]
>
>[]
>
>[]
>
>[]
>
>[]
>
>[]
>
>[]
>
>[]
>
>[]
>
>
>T0 kgs 1218,9515
>68,04
>
>d1 mm a1 mm b1 mm L1 mm DL1 Hz1 T1 lbs Sin A1 Sin B1
>1,00 150,003333 50,01 400,01 0,01333 1222,7952 150,95 0,007 0,020
> DHz1 DCents1 DT1 Lbs aa1 ab1
> 3,84 5,450 0,95 0,38 1,15
> T2 lbs
>d2 mm a2 mm b2 mm L2 mm DL2 Hz2 DCents2 153,82 Sin A2 Sin B2
>2,00 150,013333 50,04 400,05 0,05332 1234,25 21,591 DT2 lbs 0,013 0,040
> DHz2 3,82 aa2 ab2
> 15,30 0,76 2,29
>
>
>
>T1 kgs T2 kgs Downwards force on the Bridge T1 lbs
>68,47 69,77 4,02
> Downwards force on the Bridge T2 lbs
> 8,20
>
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> >_______________________________________________
> >Pianotech list info http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech
>
>
>
>----------
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